From: "Tim Edwards" <jedward@acenet.com.au>
To: "Philip Sutton" <Philip.Sutton@green-innovations.asn.au>
Subject: Re: [greenleap] The new heroes - and encouraging more?
Date sent: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:38:21 +1100
Philip
You are dead right with regard to the need to honour and publicise courage and dedication.
I am happy to make time available to assist albeit under the following views that are not always exactly aligned with yours:
1. It is more about publicity / ongoing education than awards. I have seen far too many awards given and forgotten. I would be really keen on seeing emphasis on publicity and ongoing activity to promote agreed themes.
This calls for a strategy. I don't have the answer but I believe that it must be more than periodic awards. You may recall that I have a view on the need for an ongoing TV series on the topic of environmental sustainability. This idea was and is aimed at the same outcome - to educate and change beliefs and behaviour.
2. I remain concerned about mixing environmental sustainability with social sustainability. I recognise there is considerable overlap and that both are vitally important. I would like to make a real effort to try to define the scope of both and to keep the two focussed on the high points within the agreed scope for each, separately.
My primary logic is that of positioning and publicising. My background is marketing. The marketers training seeks to find as much clarity as possible and to cause the general public to adopt a particular view wether it be about a political party or a product or a public policy issue.
I believe that social sustainability and environmental sustainability are largely different with significant overlap. However if one allows the overlap to distract from the main point both will suffer.
Environmental sustainability is already too diverse a topic for most people to think about. When it is mixed with Social sustainability it becomes far to broad a topic to cause people to get a clear message and act on it.
The same is true about social sustainability.
Therefore I feel both should be addressed but as separately as possible. This does not require a disingenuous stance or a misrepresentation. It merely calls for the emphasis to be placed correctly to avoid confusion and lack of clarity and the resulting dilution of message.
3. If possible we should try to build on or within an existing platform or network.
I suspect the interface of academia and relevant NGOs is the place to start but with a significant effort to put the initiative on a reasonable financial footing and with the intention of engaging mainstream organisations including governments.
Please advise if you want my assistance. I can be moved on these views but I thought better to declare my starting point.
Regards
Tim Edwards
02 48 615 355
0412 603 216
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To: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
From: "ccgroupte" <ccgroupte@yahoo.com.au>
Date sent: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:38:52 -0000
Subject: [Civic-Courage] Re: A question about politics?
Send reply to: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
I think I agree with Philips suggestion.
For clarification, I am trying to reduce differences that are
unproductive so that they do not distract from the main game.
It is inevitable and a good thing that CCrs have different views.
However any CCr may see him/herself self as aligned with any of the
political parties. I hope this alignment is irrelevant to the topics at
hand.
Equally any person that exemplifies civil courage may have an
alignment with or be seen to be aligned with one of the political
parties. This alignment should be irrelevant to the objectives of CC.
Additionally, I would hope that CC discussions do not give rise to
crticism of any political party for the purpose of cricising the
party as distinct from its policies. The discussion should stick to
the policy not the party.
Finally I trust we will agree to define the CC scope as civic courage as
it relates to environmentally sustainable development and socially
sustainable development. If this is the mandate of CC then politics need
not enter the discussion.
Tim
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To: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
From: "ccgroupte" <ccgroupte@yahoo.com.au>
Date sent: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:49:48 -0000
Subject: [Civic-Courage] Re: Question: change the economic system or not?
Send reply to: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
I think I can work with Philips suggestion that economic systems
remain an open matter for the time being.
By way of clarification it strikes me as a matter of degree.
Economic systems are fundamental to sustainable development - both
kinds.
For instance I hold the view that a basic role of government is to
establish incentives that drive sustainable solutions and that these
incentives will be primarily economic incentives.
However I don't support the view that we should call for society to
adopt sustainable development regardless of the economic impact -
this would be unachievable.
The relationship to civic courage being that - whilst it may be
courageous to call for the latter it would be pointless.
This stance becomes a matter of degree. One of the roles of CC will
be to decide where to draw the line - a much harder question that I
will leave on the table. It is propbably better addressed in the
specific case rather than by general pronciple.
Tim
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To: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
From: "ccgroupte" <ccgroupte@yahoo.com.au>
Date sent: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 03:06:04 -0000
Subject: [Civic-Courage] Re: An introduction and a few ideas
Send reply to: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
I support Claire's suggestion that a web site would make a major
contribution.
Some of the benefits include:
a. Provides the basis for public participation
b. Provides the basis for extending the assessment of civic courage
beyond CCrs. c. Would probably attract media interest and therefore mass
awareness of CC. d. Provides CC candidates with a benefit by way of
public awareness albeit some may not seek or even want this recognition.
Do any of the current CCrs have suggestions as to how this could be
established at no cost and in such a way to ensure that the risk of
being hijacked can be incorporated.
Tim
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To: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
From: "ccgroupte" <ccgroupte@yahoo.com.au>
Date sent: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 03:39:40 -0000
Subject: [Civic-Courage] Re: A contribution on what the project should be doing
Send reply to: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
This strikes me as a central question.
My thoughts are:
1. The primary purpose of CC is to recognise and promote civic
heroes.
2. To recongise civic heroes we need to agree the scope and the
definition of a civic hero for the purposes of CC. For me we are
focussed on civic heroes in the two fields - environmentally
sustainable development and socially sustainable development.
3. I believe it is important to keep the two categories separate
and define the two categories in such a way that minimises dilution
of the concepts (Red Flag).
4. To promote civic heroes we need to promote CCG. I believe a web site
is required for this purpose and we need a communications task force that
has access to the press. We also need a carefully worded statement as to
the source of the recognition (Red Flag).
5. In time we will need alliance partners willing to support CCG
without becoming CCG. Organisations like EBA (Environment Business
Aystralia) and the Barton Group for environmentally sustainable
development.
6. This becomes a task in its own right - finding and "signing"
alliance partners within a strategy for doing so.
Tim
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------- Forwarded message follows -------
To: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
From: "ccgroupte" <ccgroupte@yahoo.com.au>
Date sent: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 05:31:26 -0000
Subject: [Civic-Courage] Re: Question: change the economic system or not?
Send reply to: Civic-Courage@yahoogroups.com
Philip / all
I agree entirely.
Without having read the book my experience and intuition is that both are
achievable and for that matter socially sustainable development can also
be achieved in a way that does not overly compromise economic development.
I also feel this is a fundamental building block to the stance of CC.
It is one of the reasons courage and dedication is important. To
cause sustainable development to be achieved in a way that allows for
economic development - particularly in the third world, but also in a way
that is seen by the general public in the industrialised world as non
threatening, we need civic courage.
For instance, I believe democractic countries have, in the past 20 / 30
years trained governments and politicians to adopt a non interventionist
stance. This stance is not appropriate for sustainable development. We
need new economic and regulatory settings that serve the needs of
sustainable development and a significant portion of this must come from
government.
It will take real courage to call for the tide to turn on this deeply held
belief.
We now need interventionist governments at least in so far as the
environment is concerned and in so far as poverty in the third world is
concerned.
I also feel that a critical element of achieving sustainable
development is new technology. Presumably this is a significant theme in
the book Philip suggests.
These ideas call for two kinds of civic heroes:
1. Those that call for new paradigms in the search for sustainable
development and those that demonstrate that new roles have an important
contribution to make.
2. Those that invent and cause adoption of new sustainable
technology. This task is surprisingly difficult and far less
glorious then it appears.
Tim
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